Curse

Zui · Oct 09, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Well, it seems ANET has decided to improve Heroes' Ascent, or at least try. Something which many members of the PvP community have wanted for awhile. So, why not start a thread about improving Random and Team Arenas? This is that thread.

I've created this in the Team Arenas fourm, and not the Suggestions Fourm because this is a topic for discussion only. So comment on others' ideas, and feel free to share your own, but please no "/signed" or "/not signed" to any of the posts in this thread.

As for this having to do something with Random Arenas, and being in the Team Arenas fourm, that is only because they're both a similar game-type, and I don't feel this really belongs in the main section, as it's mostly geared to improving Team Arenas.

I'll start with some ideas I've had first, just to get the ball rolling.

Random Arenas:

(Matching)

- Attempt to match teams that have similar win streaks together. This way, a team with 9 wins will face a team with as many wins as possible, and not a team that just entered. This will increase the difficulty of getting any Gladiator points from Random Arenas, and increase the competition in Random Arenas, albeit slightly.

- Create two brackets for Random Arenas teams, one for teams with 5 or less wins, and one for teams with 6 or more wins. This will also increase the difficulty of Random Arenas, and help ensure better games.

- When a player leaves a team, attempt to put a player with the same amount of consecutive wins on that team. That way, if the team gains a Gladiator point, the player who joined that team won't be left out, so to speak.

Or, it's possible that the matching system could be changed so that the player with the minority amount of wins determines when a team moves to the next bracket or on to Team Arenas. This would mean that if a player with 2 wins joined a team of three players that had 4 wins together, that team would count as only having 2 consecutive wins, thus allowing the player that was matched with them to get his Gladiator point in Random Arenas, as opposed to that player hoping their group stays together, and is able to beat two teams from Team Arenas.

(Rewards)

- Increase the faction reward with each consecutive victory, so you get 25 faction for the first win, 30 faction for the second, 35 faction for the third, and so on. Do this, and eliminate the faction currently gained from consecutive five game winning streaks.

- For each consecutive flawless victory, the players should gain additional faction, perhaps 25 faction for the first flawless victory, 35 faction for the second consecutive flawless victory, 45 faction for the third consecutive flawless victory, and so on.

Note: See suggestion #3 for the suggested Rewards in Team Arenas, because that would also help good Random Arenas teams to stick together after they win ten, as opposed to disbanding so they can get another 'easy' Gladiator point from Random Arenas.

(Map Types)

- Remove the current Priest Map(Seabed Arena) from Random Arenas, or add the other Priest Map(Deldrimor Arena) to Random Arenas. I'm in favor of removing them, simply because many players in Random Arenas do not understand how to play this map, and that results in very long drawn out matches, in fact, I think this is why the Deldrimor Arena was changed to Team Arenas only in the first place.

- On The Crag, make it so that if a team accumulates a significant number of kills in a short period of time without suffering any deaths, the map automatically declares them the winner. I've had many matches on this map go 12+ - 0, simply because the other team was horrible, but wouldn't resign. In fact, for half of those matches, some of the players on the opposing team just went AFK or didn't do anything after being wiped 1-2 times. I suggest that if the match goes to 8 - 0, or 10 - 0, that the game ends, and the team with the 8-10 deaths, looses. This would only prevent dead end games from taking 2-5 times longer than they should take, and wouldn't interfere with the death match style games on this map that are remotely competitive.

Team Arenas:

(Matching)

- Attempt to match teams that have similar win streaks up. This way, a team with 55 wins will face a team with as many wins as possible, and not a team that just entered. This will increase the competition and fun level in Team Arenas, as teams will likely be playing against teams of a similar skill level later on.

(Observer)

- Implement an Observer Mode for Team Arenas. Only show teams that have a significant amount of consecutive wins(I'm thinking like 20, or 30 wins), or top guild teams.

If this is simply not possible to do because of server issues, at least implement an Observer Mode that shows top guild teams, and the Team Arenas team with the current highest win streak.

(Rewards)

- Increase the faction reward with each consecutive victory, so you get 25 faction for the first win, 30 faction for the second, 35 faction for the third, and so on. Do this, and eliminate the faction currently gain from consecutive five game winning streaks.

- For each consecutive flawless victory, the players should gain additional faction, perhaps 25 faction for the first flawless victory, 35 faction for the second consecutive flawless victory, 45 faction for the third consecutive flawless victory, and so on.

- Currently, for every ten consecutive wins you earn a Gladiator point. I suggest that you make Gladiator points scale, like Fame gained per consecutive wins in Heroes' Ascent. For the first ten game win streak you earn one Gladiator point, but when you reach twenty consecutive wins you would get two Gladiator points, for thirty consecutive wins you would get three Gladiator points, and so on. This would be great, especially with the matching suggestion, since more skilled players would be able to achieve higher ranks of the Gladiator title in shorter periods of time. Less skilled players, given the same amount of play time, would not be able to earn as many Gladiator points as those players. A classic example of skill > grind, which is what Guild Wars is all about.

(Map Types)

- On The Crag, make it so that if a team accumulates a significant number of kills in a short period of time without suffering any deaths, the map automatically declares them the winner. I've had many matches on this map go 12+ - 0, simply because the other team was horrible, but wouldn't resign. In fact, for half of those matches, some of the players on the opposing team just went AFK or didn't do anything after being wiped 1-2 times. I suggest that if the match goes to 8 - 0, or 10 - 0, that the game ends, and the team with the 8-10 deaths, looses. This kind of thing wouldn't trigger when playing teams that are somewhat evenly matched, but then again those kinds of games are enjoyable, and if it gets to a point where one team can not win, they usually resign as a courtesy.

Please post your own ideas, and feel free to comment on mine.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 09, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

For RA in general, I just think that they should make some of the same changes that you see in TA, just to keep them similiar. I realy don't care for RA, as RA will pretty much always remain the cesspool that it is. One thing that could be useful is to attempt to balance teams by limiting one of each primary profession to a team if possible with the current people waiting to go in.

On the crag, I suggest having a system like if you get to 10 kills and have at least 5 more kills than the opponent, then you auto-win.

I don't really mind the priest maps in RA, as they manage to add at least a little bit of strategy and difference into the mix.

I love your idea of making TA sort of tournament oriented. When matching teams, just take the 2 highest/consec teams that are waiting and match them, match the next two, etc etc. You'd just have to make sure that the lowest teams don't have longer wait times because of this, and you're good.

I definitely agree on increased faction rewards for consecs. Just the fact that you could get up to crazy faction gain levels would encourage more people to play TA.

Glad point again is a great idea, especially if it doesn't have a limit. Another idea would be to have a weekly, monthly, and yearly records trophy or something for the teams with the highest consec, including the current winner's full team. You might even think of giving them a title to wear, showing off the "Weekly TA Highest Consec" title would be a nice incentive for good players to play. Of course, these would probably have to be permanent titles, or even just have tiers. Have it so that at the end of every week/month/year the top team's members get a title or 1 more added to the number by the title and the corresponding ladder is reset.

Legendary Shiz · Oct 10, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

If TA had an observer mode, a LOT more people would be in on it. Bigger guilds as well.

master_of_puppets · Oct 11, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

I think RA should stay the same in terms of team formation, maybe put just a few map changes like the one mentionned where you auto win in the crag if you have huge advantage to not waste time. It is supposed to be random :/

For TA, The gladiator point accumulation would not work well now due to random opponents, but if they implemented that feature that would put teams with the highest streaks together than it would work. Faction increase is also a good idea but needs a cap.

I would say no to observer mode for TA, though maybe they could broadcast huge TA win streaks like they do HoH wins, like..

"(person's team or name of guild) has won 50 consecutive battles in Team Arenas! Can you say pwnage?" maybe less than 50 but wouldnt want to see it appear too often :P

Also for TA, maybe they could make some kind of "Pause" feature where right after a victory the leader of the group could pause it, and a menu of the priest of balthazar pops up for all 4 players and they can unlock stuff, in case someone got 10k faction and they dont want the rest of it gained on that run go to waste, and then press continue to go on. Also if you have a huge streak going and some1 needs to go afk for 5 mins or so, that would be useful as well.

Absum · Oct 11, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

"Enter Next Battle" button in TA ftw.

Logan Raziel · Oct 11, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

A pause feature would be really nice. I also think they should not allow people to use skills before the start timer goes off. This would make it so rit teams dont have that huge time to set up spirits when there is no way to interupt them, and in some maps, like the ascalon arena map, the spirits reach almost the whole map from the gate. Only thing I'd miss with that is not having MM teams to stomp anymore

.

blackbane · Oct 11, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

i dont think that ra or ta should be changed, international district 1 in RA has a LOT of top players play,i guess the go ra you noob erra has ended thanks to glad points

Logan Raziel · Oct 12, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

No, its still there, dont worry.

Navaros · Oct 12, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Strongly disagree with Zui's "make getting Glad points from RA harder" ideas. It's already way harder than it should be due to most allied players having absolutely no clue what they are doing in addition to the reality that chances are any RA team will be pitted vs. teams of AT sync cheaters long before they win 10 in a row. This "AT fights an RT in RA syndrome" seems to be especially prevalent late at night although I am not aware of if that is because the game's code will automatically pit AT's vs. RT's if no RT's are online to fight other RT's or simply because that is when most AT sync cheaters come crawling out of the woodwork. Therefore due to all this nonsense in RA I would suggest awarding Glad points in RA in half-point increments for 7 wins in a row; and 10 wins still gives the full one Glad point as usual. In addition, RA teams that win 10 in a row should not be sent to TA, rather they should be allowed to continue their streak in RA until they are defeated by another RA team.

If a player leaves and the new player joins the team that wins a Glad point, they should award that new player with a Glad point just like the rest of the team. Sure he didn't win 10 in a row but giving him a Glad point even so is a lot more equitable then him getting ripped off and left with nothing when chances are he helped win a lot of those matches. This is a more realistic solution than what Zui suggested.

Biggest and most vital improvement that is required to RA/TA is to give emotes for Glad titles. That would motivate players who have high-tiered Tombs or Guild titles to come play in RA/TA too. Not much motivation now seeing as the only "reward" is that they'd have to display a way lowered-tiered Glad title instead of their highest-tiered title.

Carth` · Oct 12, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

If someone leaves in the first 10 seconds in RA, they are not allowed to click the enter button again for the next 30 mins. Damn leavers.

dgb · Oct 12, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

If someone leaves in the first 10 seconds in RA, they are not allowed to click the enter button again for the next 30 mins. Damn leavers.

That will make RA worse. The general quality will drop - if I'm given a choice between stay with idiot whammo with mending and not play, I'm not playing RA again.

Vazze · Oct 12, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

A matching system similar to GvG in RA. Instead of guild ranks, the total Balthazar factions (and/or PvP titles) of the players could be compared to find similarly skilled TEAMMATES AND ENEMY TEAMS (...no more mending wammos in RA if you are ranked high enough). This might work in RA because there are lots of ppl there. TA....is pretty much empty most of the time, Anet needs to do something to make it more popular first (though observer mode, matching system, emotes would certainly help).

remmeh · Oct 12, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

A matching system similar to GvG in RA. Instead of guild ranks, the total Balthazar factions (and/or PvP titles) of the players could be compared to find similarly skilled TEAMMATES AND ENEMY TEAMS (...no more mending wammos in RA if you are ranked high enough). This might work in RA because there are lots of ppl there. TA....is pretty much empty most of the time, Anet needs to do something to make it more popular first (though observer mode, matching system, emotes would certainly help).

TA empty? what game are you playing?

and for the 1000th time, /signed for glad title emotes.

Vazze · Oct 12, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

lol I didn't mean that no ppl there at all, but it is the least popular in PvP, and at the moment there are not enough people for a decent matching system. But again, if there is a matching system (and a decent reward, emotes for example), that might help bringing in more plyers.

Warskull · Oct 12, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

If TA had an observer mode, a LOT more people would be in on it. Bigger guilds as well.

There isn't a good guide to determine what matches to obs in TA. Streaks don't mean a team is necessarily good. Often times a decent team goes on a streak due to lack of competition. Glad points don't mean players are good either. A lot of TA matches are are very one sided and just aren't good obs mode material.

Legendary Shiz · Oct 12, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

There isn't a good guide to determine what matches to obs in TA. Streaks don't mean a team is necessarily good. Often times a decent team goes on a streak due to lack of competition. Glad points don't mean players are good either. A lot of TA matches are are very one sided and just aren't good obs mode material.

I was saying that the thought of getting on observer mode, the fact that you could be noticed (and frankly, that's whats wrong with TA. If you don't actually play TA a lot you don't know the good people/guilds. Unlike gvg where you can be a pve scrub and still probably know who QQ is). I think they should be based on streaks, or if they could somehow formulate a mini ladder for TA, just someway to get noticed in TA would be enough to attract a lot of new members tbh.

Chase the Sky · Oct 12, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Gimmick Arena- woops I mean Team Arena does need some help. Ranking and observation modes would make it worth playing again.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 12, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase the Sky

Gimmick Arena- woops I mean Team Arena does need some help. Ranking and observation modes would make it worth playing again.

You can't really call TA gimmicky when obsflame is running all over GvG and HA is and always will be stuffed to the nostrils with gimmicks.

Chase the Sky · Oct 12, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

You can't really call TA gimmicky

Ahh but you see... I did call it gimmicky. Seems I defy your logic.

Logan Raziel · Oct 12, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

I have to agree with Mephisto that TA is probably one of the lesser gimmicky forms of PvP in guild wars, HA has always been all about gimmicks, thats why I hate playing it so much. GvG has been seeming to get worse. I hate how PvP seems to go through phases build wise, and observer mode might have something to do with it. Right now GvGs seem to be going through the spike phase, more and more are popping up. Before that was NR/Tranq, hex heavy had its play for a while, and ofcourse double/trip smite. Long live shitstained balanced!